Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Mar 20, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

This one is kooky and I found it to be quite powerful in PvE, in PvP, I'm not sure how one would stop him either... ^_^

Going sword here, since penetrating blow doesn't get augmented by strength and the elite is quite fierce with high strength.

12+1+4 Strength
11+1 Swordsmanship
Rest to Curses

Seeking Blade
Hamstring
Pure Strike
Savage Slash
Warrior's Endurance {E}
I Will Avenge You!!
Rend Enchantments / Weaken Armor
Plague Touch

Wth? IWAY OH NOES!!!

Well, this is definitely my random arena choice. But for serious team games, this is PROBABLY NOT what you'd like to run with. [lol]

No res sig? Your choice to bring res sig or rend/weaken armor. Since Random arena is just plain chaos for me, I just don't bring it. [if you're on my team, don't die ^_^]

I don't expect to be ressed either since I'm shouting IWAY in combination with Warrior's Endurance.

The 16% armor penetration works even better when you have a Zealous Sword Hilt which allows you to get back 4e. per swing I believe. No Elementalist can keep up with THAT kind of e. regen from what I can tell. [4e./second with IWAY = 12pips of regen, I'm sure nobody can hit that lol]

Depending on how ill prepared you're assuming your foes to be determines your curses.

Normally I bring Weaken Armor with this build simply since the Armor Penetration is so high that doing more damage never hurts anyone but your foe. Other times, It's Rend, damn cowards...

One other idea that came to mind was to use Barbs.

Aside from the standard anti-warrior shpeel like hexes and conditions / defensive stancing, can anyone think of a way to pump out more damage? [using W/X would help but I want to pump out as much as I can from War's Endur...]

edit: the str. based attacks like Protector's Strike, Power Strike, and Griffon's sweep REALLY look good at this point I think...

JR · Mar 20, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Strength is so bad it's basicly broken, it makes an absolutely tiny difference to your damage. You would get a far better return from 16 in sword.

dont feel no pain · Mar 20, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

if you realy want serious pure warrior dmg go 16 sword/ 15 strength

its about as fat as it gets with basic dmg on just warriors , or if your a nutter try and fit in judges insight and a sundering hilt lol ,+ pentrating blow , emm what is that

10+20+15+20 = possible 65 armor pentartion

, bwahahah then you'll have some fun

Kotoso · Mar 20, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

strength gives 1.5 % extra dmg/hit/%penetration vs. 60 armour target (i think). i think you should go 13 strength (for factions Sentinal armour.make pvp warrior to see it) and the rest swordsmanship.

sh4ft3d · Mar 21, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Pen. blow is axe^^

Yukito Kunisaki · Mar 22, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by sh4ft3d

Pen. blow is axe^^

I know that, I'm just saying that pen. blow doesn't benefit from high strength so sword is better...

Why not just go 16 strength + 16 swordmanship?

Not like anyone cares how much hp you have ^_^

Well, it is known that 16 weapon is always better but with armor penetration, swords are anti-armor weapons and most players who expect to get hit use things that up armor ranging from just better armor to enchants and stances, etc.

Since armor does factor against weapon rating, [at least I believe it does], the armor pen. power of high strength with 100% dmg would, at least I've noticed, do more damage than 16 weapon and 12 strength since you have less armor penetration but that high damage output is nerfed by enemy armor.

If they're softies who don't care about AL, then obviously, going 16/16/x would be quite good.

Katari · Mar 22, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I know that, I'm just saying that pen. blow doesn't benefit from high strength so sword is better...

Why not just go 16 strength + 16 swordmanship?

Not like anyone cares how much hp you have ^_^

Well, it is known that 16 weapon is always better but with armor penetration, swords are anti-armor weapons and most players who expect to get hit use things that up armor ranging from just better armor to enchants and stances, etc.

Since armor does factor against weapon rating, [at least I believe it does], the armor pen. power of high strength with 100% dmg would, at least I've noticed, do more damage than 16 weapon and 12 strength since you have less armor penetration but that high damage output is nerfed by enemy armor.

If they're softies who don't care about AL, then obviously, going 16/16/x would be quite good.

Why not 16/16? well, first off because you can't.

Customized 14%^50% axe, Isle of the Nameless, Using Wild Blow (autocrit)
15 Axe, 13 Str: 39 vs 100al, 70 vs 60al
16 Axe, 13 Str: 40 vs 100al, 72 vs 60al
15 Str, 13 Axe: 37 vs 100al, 67 vs 60al
16 Axe, 0 Str: 31 vs 100al, 63 vs 60al
16 Axe, 9 Str: 37 vs 100al 70 vs 60al
16 Str, 9 Axe: 28 vs 100al 50 vs 60al
16 Axe, 15 Str: 41 vs 100al 75 vs 60al

As you can see, axe mastery adds far more damage point for point than str. That isn't even considering the fact that Axe mastery boosts damage from skills and then there's the fact that Str does nothing to your normal hits.

Str is used in a similar manner as Tactics. You add to Str because you want to use Str skills, or to meet the requirement of a Str shield.

jpsantos20 · Mar 22, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

actually i believe that it is possible to do 16/16 but ur not goin to have enough point to put in ur other attributes.

Katari · Mar 22, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsantos20

actually i believe that it is possible to do 16/16 but ur not goin to have enough point to put in ur other attributes.

Actually, you can't. 16/15 is the best you can get, Helm, and two sups.

Savio · Mar 22, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dont feel no pain

10+20+15+20 = possible 65 armor pentartion

, bwahahah then you'll have some fun

Penetrating Blow and Judge's Insight AP doesn't stack, since they're both base AP and not additional AP. Highest you can get on a Warrior is 46%: 20% base AP, 10% Sundering, and 16% Strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Yunisaki

Since armor does factor against weapon rating, [at least I believe it does], the armor pen. power of high strength with 100% dmg would, at least I've noticed, do more damage than 16 weapon and 12 strength since you have less armor penetration but that high damage output is nerfed by enemy armor.

+damage from attacks completely ignores armor, so AP from Strength only affects base damage during skills. By switching from 16/12 to 12/16, you're trading 15% more base weapon damage, a higher critical % rate (I don't know the numbers for this), and ~23% more weapon skill damage (varies by skill) for 4% more AP on base damage, which is approximately 4-5% more base damage, and ~23% more Strength-based attack damage. So you're losing 10% base damage plus any additional damage from criticals.

Quote:

I know that, I'm just saying that pen. blow doesn't benefit from high strength so sword is better...

Actually, the more AP you have the more benefit additional AP gives you. With 20% base AP from Penetrating Blow or Judge's Insight, going from 12 to 16 Str gives you roughly 6% more base damage. A small increase, but it's there.

Why not 16/15 or 15/16, aside from the fact that Strength doesn't do much anyway? If you're building this for PvE, you're supposed to be tanking. (Although lower health does make a bit more of a priority for the AI.) If you're building this for RA, everyone targets anyone so lower health will screw you over, especially with all the degen builds flying around there. You're just better off sticking to one Superior at most; I don't even run Superiors in RA anymore.

I thought about running a 16 Str build a while ago when Strength skills were bugged, but even then there's not a whole lot going for them. They can't cause any conditions; the lack of a Deep Wound is very noticeable. They don't have any sort of spike skill, either, like Final Thrust. At best what Strength has going for it now is Bull's Strike, Protector's Strike, and Sprint/Rush, and the prime benefits from those skills don't require that high of a Strength.

Yukito Kunisaki · Mar 22, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

16str/15weapon/+1 random weapon buff from weapon [lol]

The idea also stems from an e. based warrior. Working toward a secondary for instance, like say a touch skill type, using Warrior's Endurance to feed the touch skill [most of which don't care what armor you have] should be a consideration. [can't block, dodge, or otherwise avoid touchskills using blind and the like]

Also, warrior's cunning can stack with endurance and wild blow doesn't weaken the build at all.

LightningHell · Mar 22, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Strength is HORRIBLE. Even a caster (me) can see that.

I think the major concern is, you're not doing enough to make your opponents notice you.

Although I would have to say, if you put your Swordsmanship in Strength's spot and Strength in Swordsmanship's spot, there'd be something to argue about.

W/N with Plague Touch! Just a thought.

TheOneMephisto · Apr 05, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Strength is useful for skills and for putting extra points into.

lzlz · Apr 05, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

This one is kooky and I found it to be quite powerful in PvE, in PvP, I'm not sure how one would stop him either... ^_^

I have a similar idea long time ago. This is indeed an interesting build (except for the skills you mentioned). But honestly, this is not gonna work well in PVP even in RA...I will explain why..

Quote:

12+1+4 Strength
11+1 Swordsmanship
Rest to Curses

As others pointed out, strength isn't that useful. Katari's test shows some persuasive figures. You are basically aiming for armor penetrating, which is not really an issue since most of your targets have low AL anyway. Except you are going to attack warriors first and surprise them with your damage.

And notice that many casters have enchantments or spells which will restrict the max damage per hit. So it further restricts your idea for armor penetration or for more damage.

Basically, you are going for the energy skills. The Pros is that you can attack instantly without saving up adrenaline. The Cons is that you will have wasted the adrenaline you saved up for something really GREAT for a sword warrior --- Final Thrust. I cannot imagine the damage for a 16/15 sword warrior using Final Thrust on a 60AL fleeing foe...hmm...ouchy

Seeking Blade - This is a good skill to against the annoying block/evade foes. But the base damage is low
Hamstring - Good to stop people from running if you can cast in time, but not cost effective
Pure Strike - Another skill to against block/evade foes
Savage Slash - I will prefer WildBlow or Distraction Blow since they don't have negative effect (you don't need adrenaline anyway)
Warrior's Endurance {E} - essential for this energy-demanding build
I Will Avenge You!! - seems pointless to me unless you want all your teammates die and you are the last man stand...this isn't gonna work. I will highly recommend a rez sig
Rend Enchantments / Weaken Armor - I will choose some other skill instead of this one. I doubt if you will have sufficient energy to cast all those skills at once. Notice that all your skills are energy-based and you will have to save 10 energy for Warrior's Endurance every 24 seconds. And you will lose energy very fast since you keep spamming those attack skills
Plague Touch - The only reason for being a W/N

Quote:

No res sig? Your choice to bring res sig or rend/weaken armor. Since Random arena is just plain chaos for me, I just don't bring it. [if you're on my team, don't die ^_^]

If you want to play this game individually or be a "hero", go for a tank build. You will be always the last man stand. In RA such a random place, the team with more reg sig is most likely to win.

Quote:

I don't expect to be ressed either since I'm shouting IWAY in combination with Warrior's Endurance.

Maybe your teammates have left already..."No rez? wtf?" *left the game*

"I will avenge for...nobody"

Quote:

The 16% armor penetration works even better when you have a Zealous Sword Hilt which allows you to get back 4e. per swing I believe. No Elementalist can keep up with THAT kind of e. regen from what I can tell. [4e./second with IWAY = 12pips of regen, I'm sure nobody can hit that lol]

Zealous is the ONLY sword hilt you can choose for this build.

Final comment: Either one of the following skills will own this build in no time -- Energy Burn/Energy Surge/Energy Drain/Energy Trap/Panic

Haggard · Apr 05, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

lmao 16% armour penetration - by golly thats gotta hurt ¬_¬

Son of Urza · Apr 05, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Note on armor penetration.
Armor penetration from Strength is BASE ap.
Armor penetration from Judge's Insight is BONUS ap.
Armor penetration from Penetrating Blow is BASE ap.
Armor penetration from a Sundering prefix is BONUS ap.
Thus, the highest possible penetration on a warrior is 50%- Penetrating Blow+Judge's Insight for 40%, plus 10% from sundering for 50%. Like he said, penetrating blow does not benefit from high strength because it is base ap, and thus its 20% overrides even the highest level of strength-16%.

Beat_Go_Stick · Apr 06, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

This one is kooky and I found it to be quite powerful in PvE, in PvP, I'm not sure how one would stop him either... ^_^

Going sword here, since penetrating blow doesn't get augmented by strength and the elite is quite fierce with high strength.

12+1+4 Strength
11+1 Swordsmanship
Rest to Curses

Seeking Blade
Hamstring
Pure Strike
Savage Slash
Warrior's Endurance {E}
I Will Avenge You!!
Rend Enchantments / Weaken Armor
Plague Touch

Wth? IWAY OH NOES!!!

Well, this is definitely my random arena choice. But for serious team games, this is PROBABLY NOT what you'd like to run with. [lol]

No res sig? Your choice to bring res sig or rend/weaken armor. Since Random arena is just plain chaos for me, I just don't bring it. [if you're on my team, don't die ^_^]

I don't expect to be ressed either since I'm shouting IWAY in combination with Warrior's Endurance.

The 16% armor penetration works even better when you have a Zealous Sword Hilt which allows you to get back 4e. per swing I believe. No Elementalist can keep up with THAT kind of e. regen from what I can tell. [4e./second with IWAY = 12pips of regen, I'm sure nobody can hit that lol]

Depending on how ill prepared you're assuming your foes to be determines your curses.

Normally I bring Weaken Armor with this build simply since the Armor Penetration is so high that doing more damage never hurts anyone but your foe. Other times, It's Rend, damn cowards...

One other idea that came to mind was to use Barbs.

Aside from the standard anti-warrior shpeel like hexes and conditions / defensive stancing, can anyone think of a way to pump out more damage? [using W/X would help but I want to pump out as much as I can from War's Endur...]

edit: the str. based attacks like Protector's Strike, Power Strike, and Griffon's sweep REALLY look good at this point I think...

1. No Res Sig, regardless of chaos in Random Arena means you will lose many many times when you could have won. It really is the best skill for PvP in this game unless your whole purpose is keeping people alive, not bringing them back from the dead. How many times has my team lost because a warrior thought his full bar was too important for a Res Sig? I couldn't even count.

2. What everyone else has said. Strength is gimped. It's a pity but it's true. Going 16 sword and 12 strength is much much better than 16 strength and 12 sword. Just try it out on a test dummy and you will see.

3. Your energy gain calculations do not make sense to me. A zealous hilt gives you +1 energy per hit. Period. Armor penetration has nothing to do with that. Consider with that you are losing 1 energy every 3 seconds. This ends up meaning that, with no attack speed increase, you gain about 3.5 energy every 3 seconds so long as your target doesnt move, block, evade, blind you, or have a ward up, correct? How did you turn that into +4 energy every second?

4. Have you been tweaking it at all? I've always wanted to make a nice solid AP build bet never had it work out to be more devastating than a build made to just add damage.

Haggard · Apr 07, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick

3. Your energy gain calculations do not make sense to me. A zealous hilt gives you +1 energy per hit. Period. Armor penetration has nothing to do with that. Consider with that you are losing 1 energy every 3 seconds. This ends up meaning that, with no attack speed increase, you gain about 3.5 energy every 3 seconds so long as your target doesnt move, block, evade, blind you, or have a ward up, correct? How did you turn that into +4 energy every second?

Hes using warriors endurance (3 energy per hit)